Ahem.
But I'll get to that in a minute - first, some good news. It appears that three LOTR actors have now been approached about being in the Hobbit: Ian McKellen, Andy Serkis, and Viggo Mortensen. Eee! The only one I've heard is officially on is Ian McKellen, but that is just SO exciting! *bounces happily* This would seem to indicate that they're looking at doing some Aragorn backstory in the movie that's supposed to be a "bridge" between The Hobbit and LOTR. YES!
And now for the English language. Remember my post about the chopsticks packages in the Chinese restaurant chain near us? Well, it may be that my blog is already having an influence on the world at large! (*snerk*) Went there again the other day, and lo and behold, they have changed their packages. Yes indeed, they have corrected all the spelling! Um, unfortunately they didn't change any of the crazy punctuation, random capitalization, or weird phrasing... but still. At least the spelling's right now! Though why they wouldn't correct the whole thing if they were going to make changes anyway... Eh. Maybe their computer just finally got a spellchecker?
Here's what's really been irking me, though (and what I refer to with the title of this post). This is one I mentioned to you (er, ranted about?) while you were here, Polly.
This guy is irritating, and apparently crazy as well. No, he's not joking. He seriously thinks that quotation marks should be used, not just for their designated purposes, but to emphasize words (as in the signs that say things like, "No" Entrance by this door) and also as... decoration. Yes, seriously.
Now naturally on hearing that I was... concerned. People have come to use quotation marks almost as badly as apostrophes, especially in signs. What if others agreed with him, and this abomination became accepted and even... "correct" usage? Much to my relief, as of now he has received nearly fifty comments (which, on glancing through his previous posts, is more than twice the number even from his most highly-commented-upon posts, and approximately 16 times his average number of comments). Without exception, every other commentor agreed with me, and many gave illustrations and reasonable arguments as to why his suggestion was, er, ridiculous. Keep in mind, this guy's something of an expert on slang, expressions, word origins, etc. and an editor of an online dictionary of slang who has a radio show on writing and speaking well. Given his specialties and the purpose of his blog, you would think him likely to attract the type of person who would agree with him - but on the contrary, to this idea there was a unanimous, resounding "NO!"
Now, I dunno about you, but after that I'd be inclined to be just a bit chagrined, or at the very least resigned that the world was clearly not ready for my brilliant, innovative, forward-looking ideas. Well, this guy's quite confident, and far from chagrined. And apparently I, along with his fourty-some other commentors, am... "ignorant of what English grammar and syntax really allow", "ignorant of the difference between style and grammar and syntax" "condemning the social and class issues that result in such style decisions", "lack a generosity of spirit", am "unwilling to assume intelligence and foresight in the actions of others" and "duck under the cover of 'humor' in order to disguise classist, elitist, and social judgments against people perceived to be inferior to the commentator." Oh, and also, among the core body of linguists and university-level grammarians, his point of view is so ordinary and plausible as to be hardly worth questioning.
Hmm... so because some people don't know how to use the language correctly, rather than correcting them, teaching them, or at the least mourning the misuse while accepting that they don't know any better... We should just all join in the fun? If enough people make the same mistake, it's right? We shouldn't tell anyone they're doing something wrong, because that would be judgmental and elitist?
I'm sorry, no. These people who use quotation marks like that in signs and elsewhere are not (or perhaps only in very, very rare cases) making a thoughtful stylistic decision. They are using quotation marks incorrectly because they don't know the rules, or choose to ignore them. There are plenty of correct or acceptable ways to emphasize words. Quotation marks are not one of them. Seriously, most of his arguments could also be made for the usage of apostrophes - but that doesn't mean we should just toss the rules out the window and say they should be used whenever and however one pleases. I know English is a growing and changing language, rules shift over time, and some of them, under some circumstances, need to be relaxed. But just... no. I don't see anything this could add to the language but confusion, misunderstanding, and growing ignorance. There are more than enough alternative ways to emphasize words already.
Isn't the English language confusing and complex enough without adding this kind of insanity?
Erg. *stews*
Okay, I'm done ranting now. If you've gotten this far... congratulations, and thanks for listening. ;) ;P
So I'm gonna try to get some writing done today on my SGA story for the SNWCG challenge. Dunno if I'll succeed. You see, my dear Polly has sent me some hilarious LJ communities for discussing Mary Sues and bad fanfic. Which have been tons of fun to look through. ;D Only... now I can't even look at my own stories without snarky voices making commentary in my head. *cringes and slinks away*
Here's what's really been irking me, though (and what I refer to with the title of this post). This is one I mentioned to you (er, ranted about?) while you were here, Polly.
This guy is irritating, and apparently crazy as well. No, he's not joking. He seriously thinks that quotation marks should be used, not just for their designated purposes, but to emphasize words (as in the signs that say things like, "No" Entrance by this door) and also as... decoration. Yes, seriously.
Now naturally on hearing that I was... concerned. People have come to use quotation marks almost as badly as apostrophes, especially in signs. What if others agreed with him, and this abomination became accepted and even... "correct" usage? Much to my relief, as of now he has received nearly fifty comments (which, on glancing through his previous posts, is more than twice the number even from his most highly-commented-upon posts, and approximately 16 times his average number of comments). Without exception, every other commentor agreed with me, and many gave illustrations and reasonable arguments as to why his suggestion was, er, ridiculous. Keep in mind, this guy's something of an expert on slang, expressions, word origins, etc. and an editor of an online dictionary of slang who has a radio show on writing and speaking well. Given his specialties and the purpose of his blog, you would think him likely to attract the type of person who would agree with him - but on the contrary, to this idea there was a unanimous, resounding "NO!"
Now, I dunno about you, but after that I'd be inclined to be just a bit chagrined, or at the very least resigned that the world was clearly not ready for my brilliant, innovative, forward-looking ideas. Well, this guy's quite confident, and far from chagrined. And apparently I, along with his fourty-some other commentors, am... "ignorant of what English grammar and syntax really allow", "ignorant of the difference between style and grammar and syntax" "condemning the social and class issues that result in such style decisions", "lack a generosity of spirit", am "unwilling to assume intelligence and foresight in the actions of others" and "duck under the cover of 'humor' in order to disguise classist, elitist, and social judgments against people perceived to be inferior to the commentator." Oh, and also, among the core body of linguists and university-level grammarians, his point of view is so ordinary and plausible as to be hardly worth questioning.
Hmm... so because some people don't know how to use the language correctly, rather than correcting them, teaching them, or at the least mourning the misuse while accepting that they don't know any better... We should just all join in the fun? If enough people make the same mistake, it's right? We shouldn't tell anyone they're doing something wrong, because that would be judgmental and elitist?
I'm sorry, no. These people who use quotation marks like that in signs and elsewhere are not (or perhaps only in very, very rare cases) making a thoughtful stylistic decision. They are using quotation marks incorrectly because they don't know the rules, or choose to ignore them. There are plenty of correct or acceptable ways to emphasize words. Quotation marks are not one of them. Seriously, most of his arguments could also be made for the usage of apostrophes - but that doesn't mean we should just toss the rules out the window and say they should be used whenever and however one pleases. I know English is a growing and changing language, rules shift over time, and some of them, under some circumstances, need to be relaxed. But just... no. I don't see anything this could add to the language but confusion, misunderstanding, and growing ignorance. There are more than enough alternative ways to emphasize words already.
Isn't the English language confusing and complex enough without adding this kind of insanity?
Erg. *stews*
Okay, I'm done ranting now. If you've gotten this far... congratulations, and thanks for listening. ;) ;P
So I'm gonna try to get some writing done today on my SGA story for the SNWCG challenge. Dunno if I'll succeed. You see, my dear Polly has sent me some hilarious LJ communities for discussing Mary Sues and bad fanfic. Which have been tons of fun to look through. ;D Only... now I can't even look at my own stories without snarky voices making commentary in my head. *cringes and slinks away*
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Good grief though, this guy...he really does think he's right, doesn't he? I mean, on the one hand, I'm all for the evolution of the English language by the incorporation of words on the fringes ("snark" really should be in the dictionary), but this is insane, and not to mention confusing. And in advertising, or in any kind of writing, you don't want someone to be confused between opposites as polar as EMPHASIS and "uncertainty."
It's one thing to use a comma to indicate a breath. (After all, Shakespeare did it.) But emphasis just doesn't come naturally to mind when you see quotation marks. It's as hard for me to think of it that was as it would be to look at blue and call it red. I mean...gah. *brain go splodey*
You would think he'd be getting a bit sheepish about his idea now, seeing that the opinion is unanimous. *shakes head* And I certainly wouldn't be testing this one out in any 500-level English classes, I assure you.... :D
Which have been tons of fun to look through. ;D Only... now I can't even look at my own stories without snarky voices making commentary in my head.
Heeee! That's one reason I stopped reading them after awhile...I started to doubt myself and chew my fingernails over every single female character who made an appearance. Eeeep. And we DON'T want you being discouraged now! *shakes finger* I wanna read this story of yours before the summer's out, you know.... ;)
One person has finally responded who's in agreement with the author. Basically, he thinks that everyone who sees themself as a "guardian of grammar" just likes the sense of power and superiority and object to anyone who doesn't use the language "as they intended". And, according to him, those grammar snobs will soon find themselves left very alone, grasping desperately to their archaic rules as the tides of language sweep on without them... or something. He really thinks we should just take more of an observational approach to language - pretty much, there's no way you can beat 'em (or teach them all) so you should just go along with it, instead of insisting that there are "right" ways.
Um.
Yeah, you need to change with the times, but that doesn't mean that language should turn into complete anarchy. I mean... does he really think there's no use for editors? Because there's no use in correcting people, so you should just accept their mistakes as developments in the language? Maybe he'd like to go back to a state of having no standardized spellings, so we can all just invent new ways to spell things when we don't feel like using the right ones! 'Cause, you know, that made communication so much easier.
I mean, seriously, yes, in many cases it's easy to tell that sign makers and such intended quotation marks for emphasis instead of sarcasm or direct quoting. But... when he claims that people who pretend it's confusing are just being deliberately obtuse... Has he even thought this through?! There are just so many cases where it'd be pretty much entirely impossible to figure out whether a person was being sarcastic or not. AUGH!
Heh. *slightly sheepish* Really, I'm rather surprised by how upset I get about this. I mean, I was cleaning, and just kinda walking around fuming, and I suddenly realized... I was getting really mad about punctuation. Yes, this is what I get worked up about. *headdesk* The thing is, practically no one I know in RL would understand at all what the big deal is, so I sometimes find myself just bursting with the need to rant over the IDIOCY of it all, but knowing everyone around me is far more likely to give me odd looks than sympathy. ;P ('course Nef knows what I'm like, but even the rest of the family'd be a bit bewildered over how worked up I can get ;) )
LOL, I did manage to get some work done on my story today. Still at my usual slooooow pace, but I'm hoping to have it done before too long. Nice thing is, I've pretty much got the set-up and essential plot development in place now, so for the rest of the story it's mostly a matter of how much of various aspects I feel like doing before I wrap things up. We shall see...
Edited at 2008-05-27 05:17 am (UTC)
And, according to him, those grammar snobs will soon find themselves left very alone, grasping desperately to their archaic rules as the tides of language sweep on without them... or something.
Er...well, okay, on the one hand, I see his point. If there were still people desperately hanging on to the use of capitals for nearly ever abstract noun, or utterly archaic spellings, that would be rather pitiful. But...oh, my, taking the "observational" approach to language would certainly result in anarchy.
Besides, wouldn't that necessitate everyone following the sweep of the less informed and the incorrect? O.o What would be taught in schools then? Grammar is ARTISTIC EXPRESSION, dear children, so sprinkle your commas, flourish your apostrophes, brandish your semi-colons, and awaken the dawn of a new era in the English language! *sounds trumpets*
Actually, that reminds me...I did go to public school for first grade, ya know. And we were supposed to keep journals in class. I was a perfectionist even then, and it drove me crazy that, whenever I asked my teacher "How do you spell such-and-such?" she would respond, "Spell it how you think!" I know, on the one hand, that she was trying to teach us the actual process of writing, and to express ourselves on paper without bogging ourselves down or distracting ourselves with spelling (because we did have a time and place for spelling too), but at the same time...I remember being indescribably frustrated by it. :P (It still kinda makes me go GWAH to think about it.)
LOL! *pats* Well, I understand how easy it is to get worked up about things like this. (Reminds me of how worked up I got some time back about what some people call "Art." Yes, I get worked up about grammar...but I get even more hysterical about "Art" and the kinds of books which end up in "the Canon." *tears hair*) Anyway, 'tis the good thing about the internets! There is a place for every rant. ;)
By the way, and completely randomly...did I ever tell you about the sign we once saw advertising a buy-one-get-one-free sale on Altoids?
(Which, at first, I wondered if it had been done purposefully, as it could possibly be considered cruel and unusual treatment to offer someone an Altoid, since they are "curiously strong" and all of that...but it was an honest-to-goodness typo. :D)
Exactly. Forget grammar for a second, let's talk science - anyone ever heard of the second law of thermodynamics? Without some kind of intervention and organization, language would dissolve into utter chaos. Hehe, to quote Sir Author Stanley Eddington completely out of context: "Well, these experimentalists do bungle things sometimes. But if your theory is found to be against the second law of thermodynamics I can give you no hope; there is nothing for it but to collapse in deepest humiliation." *bg*
He, yeah, there's a place for artistic expression and deliberate breaking of proper rules of grammar... but really, best to know the rules and why you're breaking them first.
Gah, man, that would've driven me SO crazy! Don't refuse to tell a perfectionist how to spell a word for a school paper, please! You make their head a splode! ;P
That Altoids advertisement... BWAHAHA! Hmm, that's what you get when you don't pay your editor... *eg*
Hee.
Oh, and I just have to publicly let a few squees loose over Viggo Mortensen being contacted! *does so in ear-piercing decibels* As dearly as I love Legolas, I think I've been more anxious to see Aragorn again. *huggles dearly beloved ranger* ‘Course, I wouldn’t mind terribly if Orlando Bloom was next to be put on the list contacted actors…
Work. On. Your. Story. *glowers* After our Indiana Jones marathon, I’m thinkin’ I need a bullwhip. *smirk* Keep up production, OR ELSE. >:)
Well, according to what I've heard now, they'd really like to get pretty much all of the LOTR actors to reprise their roles in the Hobbit. Not sure in what form exactly, or how, but... Eee! Looks rather promising for Legolas...
And I'M WORKING ON IT! ;D
(par example: italics Ooo! How nifty is that! Hey, exclamation points! Another one! We're on a roll! Gasp! ANOTHER! *is buried under endless ways to write something in such a way as to draw more attention to it*)
However, if ignorant beings think it's cute to put quotation marks around everything and sundry they want to emphasize, simpletons like me are going to be searching their writings looking for whom the idiots are quoting and coming up with a big fat disappointed zero. It could get messy.
(It's even annoying when people use finger quotes when speaking to emphasize stuff. Grr. :P)
On a brighter note, the LotR stuff is super cool! *is excited like whoa, even though it's mostly just people chatting together about making it* It would be cool to..like infinity to have more Aragorn and his smelly, butt kicking, rangerly Rangerness. This is gonna rock so much!
As you said - there are so MANY ways already - why on earth should we add such a confusing one? But according to this guy's theory, teachers and editors who endeavor to instruct and correct people are pretty much worthless. Because we're judgmental and superior and elitist, and we should just allow these people to make whatever "stylistic choices" they want. So we shouldn't tell anyone that there's a right and wrong way to do things. Because complete language anarchy is so much better than having any kind of sensible rules. As if English weren't confusing enough. *sighs*
Hey, I don't expect perfection from people in writing, I really don't. If everyone wrote perfectly and knew all the rules, there wouldn't really be any reason for my job, now, would there? I understand that people make mistakes, or get confused about the rules - I've certainly been known to myself! And I don't look down on people for making mistakes. But I happen to be of the opinion that when writers make "stylistic choices" that deviate from the normal rules of correct grammar... they should at least know the rules, and have good reason for bending them. And it's not that I'm "unwilling to assume intelligence and foresight" on the part of others (as he puts it), but I really, really just don't find it believable that most of these people have thought through their use of quotation marks and made a deliberate stylistic decision. They don't know the rules, they make mistakes, end of story. Or rather, beginning, apparently. *fumes*
LOL, sorry to run on yet again - as I said, I can get very worked up about punctuation. ;P (Ha, and I'm definitely with you on the finger quotes. So. Irritating. What's even worse is when I see people doing it once too often and catch myself doing it. *wants to smack self* Not that I do it more than once in a blue moon, but even that... Grr.)
Oh man, I'm getting so excited already about The Hobbit. Having Aragorn back would be so incredibly cool - and I really hope they get Legolas back, as well! That would be awesome.